Just TWO Reasons: Are you happy the Health Reform is now reality or not? (Poll)

If insurance companies had done the right thing, the government wouldn't need to step in. The government (i.e., Democrats) stepped in because rich companies don't care about the average person who can't afford health care. Be grateful for a President and Democratic congress who care about all of us.

If you think our government cares about us you are mistaken. The government wants your money the more they can get the more they like it.

When they were voting for the bailout remember how they totally ignored the people demanding that they not do it? Many people do not see an advantage to this health care scam except that it will take more of their money. Wake up folks!

How will there be "free" preventive care?

Do you not pay the doctor who does the exam? Do you not pay the nurse that gives you the vaccine? Does the doctor eat the cost of that vaccine? Does the receptionist not get paid for making the appointment for the "free preventive care".

Where does the money come from for forcing the children on the coverage until 27?

Where does the money come from for including the pre-existing conditions?

I am not against the provisions at all. I KNOW who is going to pay which is being ignored.

Dr Know - you left one out. When do we enact a law that forces people to become GPs, because we don't have enough to cover all the people who have the right to health care? And college kids are choosing different careers to avoid all the hassles?

Actually, there are incentives in the bill to meet the demand for more doctors...and there are specific taxes on the top 4% rich people in the country and savings from cutting fraud and waste in Medicare to pay for the health care plan...as repeatedly stated by the Congressional Budget Office.

cutting fraud and waste in Medicare

c'mon .. really? It sounds like magical thinking. Like when they say "we're going to streamline this so it runs more smoothly."

It never ends up happening.

Actually, there are many billions of dollars returned to the government in waste and fraud already with minimal enforcement and oversight. More enforcement and oversight will return even more billions of dollars. Here is a good report on that subject...

The Department of Health and Human Services’ Office of Inspector General reported savings and expected recoveries of more than $20 billion for 2008.²

Broader federal efforts to close loopholes, reduce improper payments, and discourage inappropriate conduct saved about $39 billion during fiscal year 2007, $30 billion for Medicare and $9 billion for Medicaid....

Studies have found that the return on investment for selected fraud and abuse control efforts is high and could go higher. For instance, the Department of Health and Human Services’ Office of Inspector General estimates that for every $1 spent on health care oversight, the government receives about $17 in return.

Reduce Waste, Fraud and Abuse in Health Care

NHS in Germany is EXCELLENT!!! The reason why?? They took on insurance companies and the drug companies who whined and whined about how they wouldn't have enough profits to continue research and development. LIARS! Until we take on the high profiteering insurance and drug companies we'll still be behind.

the profits of these industries are not that high in comparison to other industries

NHS in Germany is EXCELLENT!!!

As someone insured under the German system, mind you not the private but the public option, I have to say it has its pros and cons. Nonetheless, it is better than being unable to have health care at all.

My niece is an American ex pat who has been living in London for the last 15 years, which means she's seen both systems.

She has only good things to say about the British NHS and says it's vastly superior to ours.

Finally the US will join other 1st world countries. This will go a long way towards bringing the economy back up to speed now that the populace is no longer held hostage for health care.

The passage of the bill is excellent news for the whole country, bringing us into the 21st century.

Exactly. The victors are the insurance companies. The logic I keep hearing from politicians is "now that they will have so many more customers, they CAN lower costs!" Assuming they will do this out of the "goodness of their hearts" is ludicrous. They are in business to make money. They are going to gouge us as much as possible - and now that the service they offer is MANDATED they can charge whatever they darn well please. There's nothing to stop them.

one for semper fidelis: "Logjam of war contractor fraud suits":

http://www.truthout.org/article/logjam-war-contractor-fraud-suits

little article on former bush admin. protected its donor base: big pharmaceutical companys and also big defense contractors, who dont care for the little guy, the taxpayer"

Forcing people to purchase medical insurance is outrageous! I cant believe this is actually happening. Its sad and infuriating at the same time. How does this help small business at all??? Seriously, what a joke!

Oh I guess we are just supposed to trust lying politicians to get in right for the first time in history, who vote on things they havent even read, and slip in all kinds of bribes and favors....right, ok. Lets just wait and see how great its all going to be. I feel much better now

This is the end of freedom. We don't need to sit and wait to see how it will turn out...it is going to be bad. Just imagine, I am going broke and decide to take in my sister with her seven children to support...she and and my BIL are not working plus I am having problems trading with my neighbour who I also owe lots of money. Tell me how do I manage that? I will not have illusions about my situation, but it seems our government maybe using that money machine a little too often.

I work with a small business and is not going to spend every penny but want to save in order to maintain the business over the next couple of years. We do not have health care, and no way we could afford to give everyone in the business (13 employees) that benefit. Tell me one thing the government done that does not exceed budgeted cost? People mentality regarding working with the government is, triple the price, Uncle Sam got money (foolishly not realizing that it us the tax payers paying for it). Here's the Math: GOVERNMENT=HIGH COST. Even the children in school knows this.

People do not kid your selves about the real cost of the Obama health care = Big $$$$ and 2 Expensive 4 me.

Why should I be forced to pay increased premiums for irresponsible people that don't have health insurance?

We do not have health care, and no way we could afford to give everyone in the business (13 employees) that benefit.

Definitely one of the previous benefits of living in Hawaii. All employers are required to supply health coverage for anyone who works 20+ hours per week.

That is the reason people are needing/wanting all this healthcare reform. People are working day in and day out and the employers don't have the decency to provide services to keep them working for them - I'm talking health-wise. The work ethic and pressures of working in the US put such a strain on the body and the mind, why would employers not want to help keep their employers healthy or at least reduce one stress by helping in the insurance department.

Whether the reform works or not still remains to be seen, but at least the change will spark our nation to finally start moving - the stagnation of the nation is weighting us all down - all talk and no action because of fear of what could happen sets up for no change whatsoever.

How do you know that will happen? Surely one needs to wait and see the reality first?

And by the time you "see the reality" you're already screwed.

Excellent comment, Jmethesad, because unhealthy workers constantly struggling means an unhealthy struggling economy too! There really is a connection.

Are you kidding? I work at a small business. I cannot afford health insurance; neither can the owner (for himself or the employees). We all pay out of pocket for medical. When there's a big medical expense, the company kicks in what it can.

I pay for and receive good healthcare. I would not be able to afford anything catastrophic, and neither would the company.

Can anyone explain how in the world this health bill changes any of these conditions?

And in what universe is this even remotely akin to the healthcare systems in Britain or Germany?

Small business are going to get tax breaks in order to provide health insurance for their employees, for one thing. Many small business owners are thrilled about this.

This healthcare reformWILL NOT help the majority of Americans.

You cannot say that for certain until it has been in operation

Sorry but I will have to AGREE with Travis on this one.

Do the math.

This "plan" will cover an additional 32 million folks when FULLY implemented. Being as there are currently over 300 MILLION folks in this country, that means an improvement on coverage for 10 percent of the population, and THAT is assuming that everything goes as planned.

So you simply can NOT say that something that benefits 10 percent of the people is going to help the majority.

Especially when a good deal of that 10 percent didnt have insurance because they were too expensive to treat. And the insurance companies could exclude them from coverage. Now that they have to cover them and not have any yearly or lifetime maximums, it doesnt take a math wizard to know that our insurance premiums are going to go through the roof.

I resent the heck out of being forced to purchase anything no matter what it is!!!

Does that mean car insurance, mortgage insurance, flood insurance? This isn't any different - remember there was a reason we are all forced to get car insurance.

Car insurance is to protect OTHERS primarily.

Why doesn't the government spend those billions and billions of dollars opening low cost clinics?

Health insurance is an immoral scam. And now we are all forced to buy it. By all means give me Germany's or England's system instead.

You are not forced by the government to buy mortgage insurance OR flood insurance. Those are part of the PRIVATE contract you sign when you accept the loan.

Car insurance is mandated because YOU chose to drive instead of using public transportation. It is a result of you CHOICE - AGAIN. There are many people who do not have auto insurance. They do not drive.

All I can say is thank heavens I was able to spend the first 8 of my 16 years of my professional career without having to be forced to pay into health care...doing so now only because I have a family, so I get the group plan for us all.

On my own for eight years after college I was able to save all those payments into an interest bearing account which allowed me to put down over 20% on my first house and build up a decent little nest egg which allowed me to write a check for BOTH my kids pre-paid college funds when they were born.

Did I gamble it...sure - but it was a gamble that I had the right to make, and in the end, instead of being forced to pay into insurance I never used - I got a house without PMI and two college degrees for my children's future.

God help those that are going to try and save into the future now...

-----------------

That said, should we find a way to deal with health care...definitely, but this was not it.

All I can say is thank heavens I was able to spend the first 8 of my 16 years of my professional career without having to be forced to pay into health care...

You were fortunate that you were healthy and able to save that money. If you had been diagnosed with cancer or been seriously injured, it is likely that all, or most, of your savings would have been wiped out.

You were fortunate that you were healthy and able to save that money. If you had been diagnosed with cancer or been seriously injured, it is likely that all, or most, of your savings would have been wiped out.

Either way it was his choice to make not the governments. A freedom that no longer exists.

Either way it was his choice to make not the governments.

That may be true, but would Shawn have asked for government help if his savings had been depleted and he was unable to work?

would Shawn have asked for government help if his savings had been depleted and he was unable to work?

I don't know as I am not Shawn. Personally my answer would be no but then I believe that I am responsible for supporting my family and not relying on anyone else (especially the government) to take provide when i should be.

Anyone who would seek to sabotage something designed to help millions must have a screw loose

unless by helping those 10s of millions you hurt 100s of millions by spending more money you don't have (during a deep recession) and end up lead a country to financial ruin.

the govt has never saved money.. they only know how to collect it and spend it. thie cost of this will go up just like every other entitlement program, just like it did in MA...and by the way, my premiums when up over 10% last year (and the year before that). we can not afford this.

Anyone who would seek to sabotage something designed to help millions must have a screw loose

Only screw loose is a person from England who telling me socialized medicine is better than ours. Sorry to disappoint you but I know a lot of Brittan's and they tell a different story.

Anyone who would seek to sabotage something designed to help millions must have a screw loose.

There are a lot of loose screws in the Senate.

because history will prove him right.

So you are a psychic and know how history will show this? There is actually a greater chance that history will show him to be the president who bankrupted our country. Anybody with money sense should know that when the bank account is empty (or in the government's case overdrawn) you stop writing checks and live within your budget. Obama has proven he does not have the financial smarts to balance a checkbook much less run a country.

The republicans had a chance, but never saw it as a problem --

Funny I didn't know that the rules had changed and you were only allowed to submit a bill if you were a member of the party that includes the president.

This is all just more "smoke and mirrors", how many bills were submitted to "fix" health care during the last administration?

OK, the MAJORITY of Americans....

The majority that voted, voted for Obama. He ran on health care reform.

so did mccain, just not stupid healthcare takeover reform.

The majority that voted, voted for Obama. He ran on health care reform

just because a majority voted for Obama does not mean they all agree with everything he wants, says or does. as evidenced by the polls against this bill, the backroom deals, etc

a majority voted for every president that does not mean they had unwavering support throughout their presidency.

Health care bill should help small business

Read and Learn.

Thanks for the link, Roy.

The main reason health insurance is so expensive for small business is that there is a narrow pool of people being insured. Bigger companies with more employees are better able to spread the risk, so premiums are lower, and they also have more buying power due to their size.

To counter this, starting in 2014, small businesses and the self-employed will be able to shop for plans offered through new state-based purchasing pools called exchanges. By pooling small businesses together, these purchasing cooperatives are expected to offer rates that should be lower because of 1) increased group purchasing power, and 2) bigger pools of insured customers.

What about the mandates to buy insurance?

For the most part these will have little effect on small business. Businesses with fewer than 50 employees will be exempt from the mandate, though it is expected that many companies will try to offer it for two reasons:

• The exchanges should create a more affordable option than is available now.

• The plethora of new tax breaks and credits written into the law as incentives.

I believe that the bill will reduce unemployment by making insurance more affordable for small businesses.

Roy-

There isn't much to learn there.....all he says is that this bill sucks but make the best of it. I think you need to read and learn more. The terrible Health Insurance companies with their 4% profit are "horrific" companies. Our government will throw away that much money in a week with their "efficiency" of management.......16,000 new IRS jobs for enforcment of healthcare for starters. The problem with healthcare is no one wants to cut the costs......"we'll just insure 30 million more people but it will cost less". Are any of these people serious? Look at SS, Medicare any government run product, it doesn't work.

Once people live with the new laws, they might see where they have been misled. There is a discussion going on here.

we'll just insure 30 million more people but it will cost less

Yeah, really, eliminating three primary ways the companies have to manage risk is going to save money; no banning pre-existing conditions, requirement to cover kids until age 25 or 26, and no lifetime limit! Premiums are going to have to skyrocket because these things will cost a hell of a lot of money. My auto insurance company cancels me if I file too many claims and raise my risk; and don't even talk to me about homeowner's insurance, which from what I hear cancels people at the drop of the hat. That's what insurance companies do, they manage risk.

katrix-I know what you mean. My homeowners insurance has gone up about the same as health care premiums. My escrow is now almost half my mortgage payment.

My friends in Florida don't even have full insurance because they can't afford it after those nasty hurricane seasons. I'm surprised the government didn't forbid the companies from no longer offering coverage, or from jacking up their rates, because their payouts were so large during those years. Maybe if Obama had been in office, because he does not seem to understand how insurance companies work and what managing risk is.

The insurance companies have already unloaded flood insurance onto the federal government. Hurricane insurance will probably be next. The insurance companies like socialized insurance for the high risk stuff. They just want the gravy.

trm if you had a clue on what you are saying you would be dangerous.

katrix

I live in Florida ,my rates are 1100 per year for a 2100 sq foot house and I live on the coast. So please get your facts right. If your friend if they are real, can't afford insurance they should try to work because it helps. By the way my taxes are higher than that.

I believe that the bill will reduce unemployment by making insurance more affordable for small businesses.

right, because now you have to pay for insurance for your employees instead of having workmans comp and paying them well enough to get their own. trust me, any company that has to cover their employees healthcare will be laying off workers to reduce cost and passing the cost of the remainder of employees on to the consumer. put on your business hat and take off your bleeding heart liberal hat and see how the numbers work out.

trust me, any company that has to cover their employees healthcare will be laying off workers to reduce cost and passing the cost of the remainder of employees on to the consumer

They've been successfully required providing health insurance to employees, who work 20+ hours per week, for the last 40 years in Hawaii. The requirement works and doesn't crush employers.

JmetheSad

Read a little, Hawaii health care is going broke also because industry left and now their is no one to pick up the tab. Guess who the main employer is ? The government! Another union custer f*ck waiting to be bailed out.

ebookout

I understand the state is going broke. Recession, stupid rail system we apparently need on this tiny island, and all the other politicking that has been going on with other useless spending. Yes, Hawaii has been hit just like everyone else.

But as for private employers, requiring them to provide health insurance coverage isn't unmanageable. Just because the government is the main employer means private companies shouldn't have to take care of their own?

Read a little deeper not the surface . Taxes for health-care cost is to high for a company to make a profit or return on their investment. If health-care was so manageable why are they going broke and this is before the recession. As far as government it is an overhead to private business plain and simple.

And show me something the government has been involved with that not going broke.

ebookout

Ok, I shall do more research as what not, I know I'm not terriblye versed in the various aspects of the topic (slightly skewed perspective due to my employment), but I'm also having a hard time following who "they" are that you are referring to. We honestly may not be having the same conversation. "They" as in private health insurance companies, private employers, government, or government run health insurance programs? I'm lost and hungry - going for lunch, but shall be back as I am interested.

Taxes for health-care cost is to high for a company to make a profit or return on their investment.

Really? How much exactly will those taxes be? Are you including the tax credits for small businesses? Do tell but please show your work.

They are government run programs. AKA health care. That has destroyed your tax base on a system that want work but you say it does. Facts show otherwise.

You need business to pay taxes thus your health care if you require them to pay from both ends why be in business or why stay there. Both ends being as an employee and higher taxes to cover the government end. As usual Union control the government end and will collapseyour state government because they want but don't give. Most company pay higher wages so employees can afford their own health care. Now they will cut back on wages and pay health care or leave. In Hawaii case they are leaving. Soon there will be no one to pay than what?

Roy if you come into a conversation at least read what we are talking about. It Hawaii ? As far as the tax credit that's the biggest bull i heard all day. I'm a small business owner are you. If not leave it along.

right, because now you have to pay for insurance for your employees instead of having workmans comp and paying them well enough to get their own.

Companies with fewer than 50 employees will be exempt from the mandate . . . See the quote from the article that Roy Blatty linked.

Businesses with fewer than 50 employees will be exempt from the mandate, though it is expected that many companies will try to offer it for two reasons:
• The exchanges should create a more affordable option than is available now.

• The plethora of new tax breaks and credits written into the law as incentives.

JmetheSad

Lunch I guess that would be right in Hawaii, I'm in florida and it's 6: 29 here. Guess I need to eat also. Will check back. Even though we may not agree I like the way you discuss things( civil). Putting you on my watch list.

So you can't tell me what those increased taxes are in Hawaii? I'm interested.

And yes, I am a partner in a LLC.

ebookout

Ok, I don't think we are having the same conversation and/or I'm still not connecting what you are saying to what I am saying.

I'm talking about private companies providing private health insurance coverage. I work for a private firm and have private insurance, through my company because it's a requirement for our state. Isn't it safe to assume private employers providing private insurance (yes, this does affect base pay) help alleviate the need for government to provide/force people without healthcare to get their own? If the company is providing it, which you pay partially as well, somewhat forcing people to get healthcare already aid in working indiviudals in having healthcare?

I know we pay into medicare and sure we pay taxes to the state to which goes to funding for programs like medicaid, but I wasn't aware there were other government funded healthcare programs - as far as I knew the reform does not include a public option program for everyone. Also, as Roy and Carol pointed out with the reform I had also heard of these tax breaks for small businesses.

I understand I'm not extremely up-to-date with the ins and outs of this topic, so please bear with me. I'm honestly not trying to be difficult or purposefully stupid.

Roy Hawaii going broke because of their health-care. The taxes are why business are leaving and sense government employees the majority of the people the taxes are out of whack. Hows this? Just a few example of taxation that's already there.

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2010/03/17/business/AP-US-GET-Hike-Hawaii.html

http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxfreedomday/

http://healthcare.nationalreview.com/post/?q=MWQ3MTY5NjVhMDY0NjgyMjgwNTIxNDcxYzNiZDI1NGE=

Story says the surplus Hawaii’s state budget enjoyed just two years ago has morphed into a $230 million deficit. She says the deficit will only get worse if programs like Med-Quest continue to expand.

Med-Quest administrators “seem surprised that people who could already afford health insurance were switching over to the ‘free’ government program,” Story said. “But once again, we shouldn’t be surprised. Any time the price of something is reduced—in this case, to zero—demand increases.

“That is a fundamental problem with ‘universal government health care’—there is no limit to the demand for a ‘free’ service. But without market-determined price levels, supply does not meet demand, and shortages and inferior care are the results,”

You are not stupid, Just because you ask questions.

Your orginal statement was , Is the additional expense of health care a burden on private business, correct?

My response was Hawaii is going broke because business are leaving because of that same burden. The only problem is it not just from supplying your health-care it is also from paying taxes to pay for the health care of all the government employees and the state run programs that are free(but not). It's a double whamie and the question is, is it worth staying open or moving to another state. Most are folding or leaving . Thus loosing their tax base to pay for the government overhead a business pays.

The tax break for small business in if you have less than 50 employees they will give you a break of 35% of what it cost you to offer health insurance to your employees. So as a small business who is just trying to make it through this recession as it is without failing I can get a tax break not a subsidy but a tax break and I still need to shoulder 65% of the cost.

I'm a small business owner have 7 employees. Now all my people except me have insurance. I have choose not to have it because it was cheaper to pay cash than get coverage. As far as the tax credit that a farce. My company makes over 250000 per year , for short we have to make closer to 1.2 million to cover expenses and taxes. Now you want me to pay more. Personally I will just close it down and put my funds in the bank , I will get a better return. Now what happens to the others? If others follow suit then ,what everyone going to work for the government? Who going to pay for it? Look at Hawaii and you will see the out come.

Thanks anonymous2-1184030

Carol run a business than tell me about tax breaks.

I did notice your articles are republican based, which I have no particular affiliation either way dem or repub, but if sources are provided having both sides equally represented would be better.

Yes, we do need private insurance reform/regulations - this I have never been against.

Although, HMSA is one of the better paying insurance companies that I've seen, despite the article stating it's low - perhaps HMSA/Quest is low - their medicaid program because the fee schedule are set quite low to start with about 30% of billed service cost.

I don't deal with Kaiser so I'm not familiar with their coverage at all.

As for small businesses, the tax breaks would possible help with the costs for providing health care to employees, but for those who are still employed and eligible for medicare - we keep them off the government's dime as primary coverage is the private insurance provided by the employer, hence nothing is taken from medicare (they don't cover co-pays).

In regard to those on medicaid, there are regulations on who is eligible, if individuals can afford private care or are employed, they shouldn't be on medicaid and that would be the government's fault for not regulating their practices on who gets the coverage. After getting to know the department and the administrators of the program, they most certainly were not doing their job - they were politicians basically. They ran the program into the ground by disregarding protocol - trust me, they were quite opposed to following or even knowing their own rules.

Yes, in rough times money needs to be tightened up, that I do not refute, but I don't agree that our program set up is the problem, but rather the execution by the leaders in charge. They have been failing us recently and am eagerly awaiting their dismissal.

I'm not one to say republicans are bad, but Lingle hasn't done a very good job at making her party look good with all the decisions she has been making. Her politicking has gotten in the way of providing adequate services and decision making for the state of Hawaii. I'll be glad when she is gone.

But back to the topic, I don't know how this reform will affect our state and am happily awaiting to find out if a reform of the reform is needed (of course, I'm hoping against everyone's expected failure) or that it succeeds.

Sorry for the derailment and thank you ebookout for encouraging me to get back into thinking heavily on the healthcare topic once again. (I had to take a break for a while, it all started to give me a headache.)

Yes, we do need private insurance reform/regulations - this I have never been against.

This I can agree with as well as most Americans, But not a government takeover so they can screw it up as always.

did notice your articles are republican based, which I have no particular affiliation either way dem or repub, but if sources are provided having both sides equally represented would be better.

Again I can agree, But I was not concern about who wrote the article but if the information is pliable. It is of no concern were or who wrote it and by the way NYtime is a liberal paper.But I'm glad to here you have an open mine not closed by party lines but use common sense.

You say nothing is taken from medicare? Are you aware were the funds are coming from to help pay for this? Medicare and SS. You can't take large amounts of cash from one program and not have cut in that program. Not logical.

Yes, in rough times money needs to be tightened up, that I do not refute, but I don't agree that our program set up is the problem, but rather the execution by the leaders in charge.

I'm sure leaders are a problem but do you not agree someone has to pay for it no matter what it cost? That being businesses. If cost over ways profit and businesses are in business to make a profit . Than why keep the door open,just to hire people and give them insurance? Most companies use benefits as a way to get better talent but there is a point of overkill. AKA unions. They have there day but now are serious problem for this country as well as others.

As far as this health care package just look at your own and see how it is working, Not so good. Do you think the same people can do it in a larger scale? Read about Canada ,they are imploding from health care by their own definition.

I believe in regulations but open the competition, that addresses cost. The bill we have is a bunch of politicians buying vote with little thought of how to do it. Just get more taxes coming in and we will see if we can fix it later. Not good business sense. I would be broke if I did that.

Do you really believe this 80% of the working class don't works for small businesses under 50 employees. If you exempt them who going to pay for it? You?

This is just a plot to get people to think it a great plan in place of a custer f*ck that it is. Lets lead them like sheep them after the elections we will really let them have it. Get off your dream world taxes will go up greatly and cost of health care will go up. Then comes the cut backs to keep it from emploding like Canada and now you will be dead before you can even see a doctor. But I guess the rich cn always go to another country as the rest of the socized medicine countries are doing leaving the working class to rot.

trm if you had a clue on what you are saying you would be dangerous.

You are the one without a clue. I have owned a home on the coast since 1996. Please explain to me what you think you know that I don't. I pay $1200 a year for flood insurance, which is the federal govt "socialized" insurance. I also pay almost $1300 a year for hazard insurance. When I bought the house the insurance was under $700 for BOTH. My deductible has doubled on flood, and is 5 times as much for hazard. My home is 1100 square feet and not directly on the water. Before you spew your nonsense again, know what you're talking about.

The bottom line is: The government just took over 1/6 of the economy. That is 1/6 of your lives that they have direct and INCREASING control. They literally hold your health and well-being in the palm of their hands, and they will exercise their rights to give and deny healthcare based on whatever system they decide to come up with. What they passed is only the beginning, and the cascade of government regulation that you will see stem from this will be daunting. Our government has a HORRIBLE track record on socialized programs. They bleed money like a sieve into open pockets of every liar, cheater, and snake that lives in our country today. People's faith in humanity and our government astounds me as a human that has lived on planet EARTH for the entirety of my life. All you have to do is look at our history, and the history of our world to see if this is a good idea or not. I don't even bother the specifics of the bill as it pertains to it "working" or not. It will only work if the government manages it RESPONSIBLY and eliminates CORRUPTION in the system. If you ask me that is the biggest and most glaring flaw in the bill to begin with. Who cares what they SAY will happen!? Did they tell everyone when social security started that it would be bankrupt by 2010? Did they say "Oh by the way, we want to institute this retirement program everyone pays into, but sometime down the road it will go belly up and none of you will get back what you put into it. "? Gee I wonder how many votes they would have gotten with that campaign slogan.

Everyone just dumps their lives in the gov't's waiting and greasy palms... ever so eager to let Big Brother watch over you. Now we all get to sit back and see if for the first time in our history our leaders can make some huge social monster work like it is written. I for one remain skeptical.

I do hope it works... I REALLY REALLY do... but I can't heat my house and run my car on hopes and dreams. I can't fill the stomach of myself or my family on warm, fuzzy feelings. I can't pay a doctor to provide healthcare with worthless paper some former government that went bankrupt because they overextended themselves gave me. My former hopes will be cold comfort if I have no freedom, no justice, and no happiness because the government can't be bothered with my needs or the needs of my friends, family, and neighbors. When that comes around, I guess you will see me in the street... making anarchy like everyone else. Boy do I HOPE that doesn't happen... but since I can't see the future, and can't discern what our Big Brother will do next now that it has proven to be the real power in our country, not the people, I can't rule it out.

As the Romans would say, Eram quod es, eris quod sum- I was what you are, you will be what I am.

Remember the lessons of history as our government transitions to a socialist republic. We may be hailing the new Ceasar before you know it.

The insurance companies make life and death decisions everyday. Are we supposes to wait until healthcare is 40% of the GDP before we do something? Socialistic republic? Whatever.

trm you need to find a new insurance company..Funny in Florida flood is a state insurance policy. So how did NC get the feds to take it over and if they did how is the insurance company to blame for the rates since it is the fed who set the rates.

Florida Flood Insurance, through our affiliation with National Flood Insurance, LLC., are direct representatives of FEMA and process flood insurance policies through the National Flood Insurance Program.
http://www.floridafloodinsurance.org/

Again, you prove you have no idea what you're talking about. Actually, I commented that the insurance companies had already managed to dump the high risk flood insurance market onto the back of the federal government. Reading comprehension isn't one of your strong points, is it?

Tell why should my employer offer me health care? Let me get my own plan (if the price is affordable) and give me the tax credit. I am the one working to be paid, it's my health, and my money. That's one less paperwork for my employer, one less expense, and me taking control of my life which is my business. Why should the governement be my nanny?

Do you have any idea of the time and paperwork involved in doing all these insurance? Company auto insurance, workers' comp insurance, liability insurance, healthcare? Especially for small businesses? People are into business to produce to get paper cut...

Why should the governement be my nanny?

This is one of the problems I have with the whole thing. I hear a lot of people wanting to fire their representatives over this. My state,Washington, is one of the ones threatening a lawsuit. I can't figure out why no one listens to the people anymore!

I am disgusted about the run around and the back door deals that were made to get this done. So much for working together and working for the good of the people. I am concerned about my in-laws who worked all of their life for what they have and are in their 80's. How many doctors do you really think are going to want to be under stricter rules and regulations? Do you really think you are going to get top notch doctors to come work? Why can't the Senators and those guys get the same health care as "john q.public"? Why should they be treated any differently then us?

I am of mixed emotions on this bill as I really felt something needed to be done but wasn't happy with this one. I am stage 4 bilateral CKD and have enormous bills with my doctor. My husband and I still work,pay our own insurance and still take care of our family. I felt the insurance companies and drug companies were making too much money off of the American people. I would have said instead of holding hands with them, open doors for competition and create stricter regulations on costs ( putting a cap in place).

I'm sorry Ms.CYPRAH but I think this is the wrong thing to do and I see a lot of unhappy people . I thought President Obama should have really gone after the root of the problem, which I felt he didn't.

Only time proves the value.

or the folly....

If the citizens of the US approved of this bill I would have to go along with it, but they didn't and still don't.

People always fear change. Only time proves the value.

but we don't want it, we the majority. that is why we live in this country! not your country!

I get my insurance through my employment. I wouldn't be able to get private insurance because of pre-existing conditions. About 80% of my fellow employees are in the same boat.

trm if 80% of your fellow employees have pre existing condition you most all work for the government. I would advise to start taking care of yourself and stop trying to blow smoke up my A*s. The numbers don't work and I smell a snow job....

anonymous2-1184030

you left out sheep.

1. your group rates will go up due to the add on benefits more than the typical 12% annual trend.

2. Those on Medicare Advantage get a "free" benefit when the Rx donut hole goes away.

3. Self employed will get "free" subsidies and probably a larger choice of insurers when you shop in the Exchange. Good luck.

4. Your tired, your weary, your otherwise uninsurables can get the same "free" subsidies as the self-employed, or as an alternative there's the "free" high risk pool if the insurer can't help. A third venue would be to go after "free" coverage in the state Medicaid plan, where the taxpayers will have to fully fund due to the unfunded federally mandated increase in benefits.

What a joke.

trm if 80% of your fellow employees have pre existing condition you most all work for the government

Again, you haven't got a clue. Most of the people I work with have been with the company for more 25 years. Many are well over 50 years old. Think before you spew nonsense.

BTW, maybe you need to get out more. You seem to be living a very sheltered life.

http://www.rebic.com/library/North%20Carolina/2008/120308%20CO%20NC%20homeowners.pdf

Do yourself a favor and educate yourself. My rates went up 35% in 2010, and 22% in 2009.

trm just because you are over fifty doesn't mean you have pre existing conditions.Math doesn't work.. Now if you want to convince someone of the bull try a more realistic number that believable.

Would you like me to list all the employees and spouses and their pre-existing conditions? Maybe their ages also. You have absolutely no clue, do you? Math doesn't work? Why? Because in your infinite wisdom, it doesn't fit into your ideology? LMAO Give it up already.

You should try looking up some news articles about Republicans losing seats come November. More likely to be a democrat house cleaning. Several democrat house members took the bullet for Obama.

I am in the self employed. My family pays our actual bills because we can't afford health insurance. This new bill won't change that. It will require me to now pay $1600 a month for insurance with a huge deductible before it kicks in and pays a dime.

What do you pay for health insurance through your group plan maybe $300 to $500 a month. We are also in the below average for our area in income so lets talk again about how this bill is going to help me?

anonymous, i know where you are coming from! instant friend request.

It will require me to now pay $1600 a month for insurance with a huge deductible before it kicks in and pays a dime.

Really? Where does the bill say that?

The bill requires me to carry insurance. That is what the premiums are for my family since I don't have employer insurance as I am self employed and since I make more than 14k a year per person.

I don't see the cost of the premiums going down no what people try to tell you.

oh no, roy! there will be health care commissioners and tons of new irs people to make sure you are paying your part. read the bill, it will scare the pants off of you.

I'm not a fan of this bill, but even I can't stomach the comment I just quoted. Having the IRS make sure I pay taxes (whether or not I agree with them) isn't really going to scare the pants off me, since they've been doing that as long as I've been alive.

And the health care commissioners (if they will exist) and the czars (which do exist) scare me, but so have the same powergrabbing things former administrations have done. Don't cry foul about the commissioners unless you had the same problem with all the other administrations' power grabs. It's all pretty damn sad.

Don't cry foul about the commissioners unless you had the same problem with all the other administrations' power grabs

i never said i didn't. i don't care which party it is, if they are taking over, i don't like them.

amazed

i don't care which party it is, if they are taking over, i don't like them.

While I agree and understand, please do NOT expect many on this seed to.

Unfortunately this "battle" turned into an "us" against "them" type of deal and the "them" turned out to be that majority of American citizens.

How ANYONE can call this a "victory" is beyond me, after all congress and the president ALL admit that this bill(soon to be signed into law) is flawed, with SOME of the flaws being quite serious. But we're supposed to let this be turned into a law and TRUST them to go back and "fix" it later?

Isn't that(that you can trust a politician, because they SAY so) one of the big three lies? Along with "The check is in the mail" and "I won't cum in your mouth"?????

i agree. the democrats say they have won? well who were they fighting, the american people. sickening.

IF you can show me a SINGLE program "run" by the Federal Government that is NOT full of fraud, cost-overruns, mismanagement, and waste, I MIGHT change my mind.

Whats wrong with your Kazutam you are using facts to back up your displeasure? (extreme sarc) You are right though everything the government has touched is almost bankrupt.

FIRST and foremost, IF this is such a great deal then WHY did the "ruling class"(congress) exempt themselves from it?

Did they? They, like us, get to keep whatever they have.

SECOND, this is going to be "run" by the government.

What exactly does that mean? Nowhere does it say the government will insure people, only provide subsidies for those who cannot afford coverage. It is still "run" by the insurance companies.

Freedom

I know, I know.................

I REALLY shouldn't "confuse" them with facts.

But seriously, I MAY end up going to the VA if my premiums explode upwards.

I have avoided that route for decades because I always thought that should be reserved for those who "need" it. But I just might be able to justify my "need" to myself if I take too big a hit in the pocketbook.

Roy

Nowhere does it say the government will insure people, only provide subsidies for those who cannot afford coverage

You seem to have forgotten the part where they will imposes PENALTIES upon those who do not have what THEY consider to be adequate coverage.

It is still "run" by the insurance companies.

And how much you want to bet that the "insurance company" running the "high risk" pools will be AIG? You remember them don't you? They are the "insurance company" that the government BOUGHT during the financial crisis.

oh no, roy! there will be health care commissioners and tons of new irs people to make sure you are paying your part. read the bill, it will scare the pants off of you. everyone that will be making healthcare decisions is appointed by p bo! geez, what kind of communist whackos will be running this. maybe van jones is available again.

You seem to have forgotten the part where they will imposes PENALTIES upon those who do not have what THEY consider to be adequate coverage

And SUBSIDIES if you cannot afford it.

And how much you want to bet that the "insurance company" running the "high risk" pools will be AIG? You remember them don't you? They are the "insurance company" that the government BOUGHT during the financial crisis.

No, the Chinese own everything, so it will be them. No, I'm wrong, it will be run by leftist death panels. No, wait, it will be run by a purple monster that lives in a green castle.

Roy, the subsidies are only in effect for people who have less than 133% income per the national pverty level which is 14k per person per year. Do you make more that that? At that wage I would be homeless!

anonymous2, you are thinking about medicaid, which will be expanded to include coverage for those making 133% above poverty level. Families of four making up to $88,000 can qualify for subsidies.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/03/21/health.care.main/index.html?hpt=Sbin

It will subsidize insurance for a family of four making up to roughly $88,000 annually, or 400 percent of the federal poverty level.

It also creates a series of health insurance exchanges designed to make it easier for small businesses, the self-employed and the unemployed to pool resources and purchase less expensive coverage.

Medicaid will be significantly expanded, ensuring coverage to those earning up to 133 percent of the poverty level, or just over $29,000 for a family of four.

It doesn't matter. Subsidies are just the bone they throw to keep the mob happy. While people are chewing on Congress' scraps they will be tightening their grip on the people. By the time the entitlement sets in and no one is willing to live without the governments pretty little baubles it will be too late. Anyone in the lower income brackets might as well be the governments slaves. Sure... just take money from your fellow citizens. After all, you were born, so you deserve it!

In the end the joke will be on the lower class, as it ALWAYS IS. When the economy collapses, the upper class will use their bodies as a step ladder to stay on top, as it always is. The wealth gap will widen, and those with the power to do it will suck the life out of those without the power to stop it. The lower middle class will become part of the lower class, and the upper middle will be part of the aristocracy that develops, and the large middle class that has defined America for generations will disappear. Then we will sit and scrape around in our mud huts for a while until someone with a vision comes to pull us out of the muck with the next big plan, until we destroy ourselves again sometime down the road. Rinse wash and repeat. Welcome to Earth.

I think I will just shut it down and let the government pay for their own custer F.

Not sure what civil rights has to do with health care but as far as medicare it's broke. Nice job Democrats. Mike said you did it.

Unfortunately poor Mike needs to go back to the rewritten history books he has been reading and thank the Democrats for them.

Mike, just an FYI......................

You have the parties REVERSED when talking about the whole civil rights issue.